David Cameron targets welfare cheats with £50 fines as millions lose out in benefits reform
Nicholas Cecil, Chief Political Correspondent
17 Feb 2011
Around 1.7 million households will be worse off under the Government's landmark welfare reforms, it emerged today.
Millions will face a real-term cut to the benefits they currently have a right to receive.
Many will have their benefit frozen as payments fail to rise with inflation when the new universal credit - to replace unemployment, housing and other welfare - is introduced in 2013.
The 1.7 million affected include 500,000 couples with children, 400,000 lone parents, 200,000 couples with no children and 600,000 single people. Those worse off include 1.2 million households among the poorest sections of society.
But David Cameron said as he unveiled the reforms that 2.7 million households will benefit from the credit. They include a million couples with children, 700,000 lone parents, 300,000 couples without children and 700,000 single people.
Winners from the system will include 2.3 million households from the poorest sections of society.
The Government said that most of the 1.7 million will be new claimants but admitted that hundreds of thousands of existing claimants would be worse off in real terms. It also emerged that welfare cheats will face £50 on-the-spot fines for so-called "mistakes". For the first time, people who lie then claim they made an innocent blunder will be hit with civil penalties rather than let off.
The taxpayer forks out £1 billion a year in undeserved payouts to people who fail to declare income or pretend they are single when they have a partner, and for other errors.
At present, many escape sanction because it is not worth a costly prosecution. Under the new plans they will have £50 docked from claims immediately.
Mr Cameron vowed to lift nearly one million people out of poverty with the shake-up, which aims to force the work-shy to find jobs. The Prime Minister called for a "new culture of responsibility" as he unveiled the changes.
But the Lib-Con coalition ditched plans to dock 10 per cent of people's housing benefit if they have been out of work for more than a year.
The Government also signalled a U-turn on its plans to scrap the mobility element of disability living allowance for people living in care homes. Key elements of the Welfare Reform Bill are:
* A new universal credit, taking in unemployment, housing and other benefits, to make sure that it pays to get a job. Individuals will keep 35p of benefit for every extra pound they take home after finding work.
* A crackdown on Britain's "sicknote culture" in which 300,000 people a year leave work and claim sick benefit.
* Tougher sanctions against people who refuse to take up job offers. They could lose unemployment benefit for up to three years.
* Encourage couples who split up to sort out child maintenance rather than relying on the state to adjudicate.
* Reducing the "couple penalty" which means people lose some benefit if they share a home.
* Capping benefits limiting the amount household receive to average weekly earnings of £500.
* Bring in regular medical checks for disability benefits.
* Cutting benefits for the middle classes.
In a speech in east London, Mr Cameron hailed the reforms as the most "ambitious, fundamental and radical" since the start of the welfare state in the Forties. "That collective culture of responsibility - taken for granted 60 years ago - has in many ways been lost," he said. "This Bill is about changing our culture. We need responsibility on the part of those who contribute to the system - Government and taxpayers.
"And responsibility on the part of those who receive from the system. The end product is a Bill that is undeniably tough."
The reforms aim to take 350,000 children and 600,000 adults out of poverty, with more than one million households expected to be more than £25 a week better off.
The universal credit reforms are expected to cost £2.6 billion more a year, once savings from less fraud and error of £2 billion are taken into account.
The challenge of making work pay
Key elements of new reform Bill
* A new universal credit, taking in unemployment, housing and other benefits, to make sure that it pays to get a job. Individuals will keep 35p of benefit for every extra pound they take home after finding work.
* A clampdown on Britain's "sicknote culture" in which 300,000 people leave work and claim sickness benefits every year.
* Tougher sanctions against people who refuse to take up job offers; they could lose unemployment benefit for up to three years.
* Encourage couples who split up to sort out child maintenance rather than relying on the State to adjudicate.
* Reducing the "couple penalty" which means people lose some benefit if they share a home.
* Capping benefits limiting the amount household receive to average weekly earnings of £500.
* Bring in regular medical checks for disability benefits.
* Cutting benefits for the middle classes.
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Reader views (63)
Amongst all the pain and angst one glimmer of hope is the government's willingness to rethink its proposal to remove the very modest mobility allowance paid to some people who live in residential care.
The payment helps such people to continue to be part of their local community and to have a degree of independence.- Bob Media, St Albans, 17/02/2011 20:25
Report abuseBring in volunteer work in return for benefits. There are roads to be swept, rubbish to be collected, parks cleaned. Meals cooked and delivered for the elderly – the list is endless. This would make benefits pay and imagine how great we could make this nation look before the Olympics.
The Australian government introduced this and resulted in a massive drop in benefit claimants- Anna, London, 17/02/2011 12:26
Most of these jobs used to be done by directly employed council staff and for generations worked perfectly well.
Then the Tories FORCED councils to put this work out to private companies and being private they needed a profit and the result is these services are becoming unaffordable and those who did this work are now un-employed. TIAA - There Is An Alternative - go back to how we used to do things and millions paid in benefits will no longer be required!!
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 17/02/2011 19:04
Report abuse"Maybe the wages are to low.You never hear about a shortage of ' bankers'."
Wages need to be linked to company income before it can be handed on to the employees. A bit like the UK now - too much being spent when not enough was being made. Look where that took the UK - so why would it be any different for employers?
- Rogan, Irving, 17/02/2011 18:37
Report abuseDave No 1 London: I am very pleased re your Daughter's qualification. Well Done! I never intended to diminish her, I was just bringing to attention the fear of 'Mickey Mouse' degrees potentially swamping the UK system, which I am sure you will understand. Having spent many years in the USA you would be amazed how many people I came into contact with, and indeed taught, that had 'degrees', but were educationally moronic. (I can think of no other suitable expression)...I wish your Daughter well in her future.
- An Ex -Teacher, London, 17/02/2011 18:21
Report abusenothing to hide nothing to fear, period.
- james, manor park,london,E12, 17/02/2011 17:58
Report abuseCameron, Clegg and Co are beginning to make Labour look a much better alternative! Good grief!
- Baron von Richtofen, Biggin Hill, 17/02/2011 17:49
Report abuseAnna - if you force people to do something, they're not volunteering.
- Austen, London, 17/02/2011 17:44
Report abuse* Tougher sanctions against people who refuse to take up job offers; they could lose unemployment benefit for up to three years.
What is wrong with this? You are unemployed and claiming JSAllowance, you sign a contract to claim so when you are offered work you take the interview / job offered with no buts like " I have to go to pub, I cannot miss Eastenders" Polish people like to work so no complaints from them I expect.
- Prophet of doom, UK dustbin of Europe, 17/02/2011 17:39
Report abuseToo many people, too few jobs. We are massively over-populated and as population goes up, so will the numbers on the dole.
- Madmax, London, UK, 17/02/2011 17:08
Report abuseThis government is talking about benefits cheats and that a life on benefit is not an option, whilst handing down cuts to the NHS and local government which will mean that hundreds, if not thousands will lose their positions. The logic of all this is not too hard to grasp; these people will have to go somewhere and the odds on chance is that they will end up on welfare benefits. You cannot push people into a life on benefits and then accuse them of being in a life on benefits. The private sector is not going to make up the slack, otherwise they would have started to do so. There are so many logic errors in the governments philosophy over this issue that its hard to see exactly where to begin. You cant morally and ethically push people on to the doles and then say that they are on the doles. Thats what I dont understand about this government, nor the last government, nor the Thatcher government before that. Therefore I can only conclude that they mean to decimate the economy by cutting it; thats the only imperative that they have which makes any sense to the logical mind. What they are not doing is cutting the banks; there is a rush to save the banks, which brought down the economy in the first place. Yet these same banks, buoyed up with £875bn on taxpayer funds, funds that we have all had to pay for. The target of people's venom is always the benefit scrounger, yet no benefit scrounger has laid waste a nation's economy. We need to get some rationale about whats occuring here.
- Donald Hedges, Southampton, UK, 17/02/2011 17:07
Report abuseWe've heard Cameron's aspirations, now we have to wait for them to be realised.
It's plain that the success of the government's new welfare plans will depend on the availability of hundreds of thousands of extra jobs.
It's much too soon to congratulate the government as these are future jobs which don't yet exist. Will they ever? That's crucial to the whole thing.
If these hundreds of thousands of extra jobs don't materialise, the plans will turn out to have been a mirage and the policy will be a gigantic, tragic (for the people) flop.
- Mike, Cardiff UK, 17/02/2011 17:02
Report abuseWhen a person gets Benefit, do they spirit the money abroad like so many do from our immigrant community?..No. The money is spent on gas, water, el lectric ( VAT, Tax, and people kept in work), its spent at the shops, on food and clothes ( more people kept in jobs), they might even buy beer or fags ( more Tax more people kept in jobs). So in the end via those kept in jobs and business's kept in business and THE VAT Tax etc paid, the Chancellor gets most of it back anyway. Of course they do not want you to comprehend this,its basic mathmatics though. So with the vast Income of GB.Inc justb hwere is the money going, with MP's found with their hands in the 'petty v cash expemnnses till' my belief is that we neded independant International Auditors to go through the Governments Books for the last 10, 20, 30 years. I looked up Politician in the Dictionary and found it was between n ' Liar and Thief ',,seem just about right for the lot of them.
- Clif, London, 17/02/2011 16:53
Report abuseMoved to comment again because I am very concerned for the young.
Two stories. A young lady put a hand written note through my door as follows, 'Naltali from the Ukraine use to work from you. ( Ironing etc) . i am looking for work, please telephone'. Unfortunately as I have lost two thirds of my pension to Equitable lIfe and am not young enough for compensation I could not help.
Then latter over a bacon sandwich with a friend he told me his grandson a plumber could not get work. i suggested he left notes like the young girl from the Ukraine, he doubted very much if he would do that.This lack of enterprise is the fault of our schools. Forty years ago the local primary took me to task for teaching my children to read. I was also told to remove there rulers from their pencil case as they learnt to measure by the foot prints painted on the school floors. A devote of Cameron's Big Society I gave up my time to be on the PTA. Suggesting to the headmaster boys that were not academic should be allowed to put up their school colours on their jerseys, if they were good at sport to boost their confidence. He replied he was not interested in elitist ideas. Years later my grandson was punished as captain of a tug of war team for screaming, age ten, pull, pull. He incidentally on being made redundant in the city for the third time, went to Japan and taught English for twelve months getting up at four in the morning to travel seventy miles, before landing a highly paid job
- Alan, England., 17/02/2011 16:53
Report abuseAbout people not wanting to do certain jobs.Maybe the wages are to low.You never hear about a shortage of ' bankers'. I thought 'market forces' dictated things, so if no one wants to work for £5 an hour, you keep increasing it until somebody does. Not, as has happened every time import the equivalent of millions of slave labourers'. With top wages, lots of applicants surely means your payibng to much !!!..so reduce the wages until you have say 5 applicants to choose from. Of course this revolution could lead to the £100,000 p.a. bog cleaner and the £5 an hour Banker. We would have to rename Mr Cameron
' Artha Sixpence' to get an idea of his worth.- Clif, London, 17/02/2011 16:18
Report abuseM. Clift, I read your second comment with interest. I suspect we would agree a lot. i only comment because after sixty years in business i developed a healthy disapproval of most politicians. In fact i would go further every government did its best to frustrate by pointless red tape every buisness enterprise, quite simply because they had never worked in anything other than the political world. I never forget my horror when a man from the paint come chemical industry was appointed to be head of British Leyland, after first being ennobled, encouraged by the then Labour administration, who were bailing out Leyland for the umpteenth time.
My only suggestion over youth employment is to say we always had young trainees. Who always left when trained to go to our rivals, because they knew their job. In my opinion every firm over five employees should have to have one young trainee signed on for a period of three years. They could be paid half as much again the amount they would have received on benefits, alternatively employers could charge their salary as a genuine expense against taxation.
- Alan, England., 17/02/2011 16:15
Report abuseIf the goverment is serious about getting people back in work and off benefits they should remove all workers on the minimum wage out of the tax system.
Doing this would make it pay to work. The cost to the goverment in lost taxes would be recouped by the ammount saved in benefits.- Joe, Lincolnshire England, 17/02/2011 15:50
Report abuseIt would be a great idea if he could bring down the welfare bill!! There are thousands out there that can work but don't want to because they would rather sponge of the state. My only concern is that,where are the jobs going to come from? Cameron and his team are relying on the private sector creating news jobs, but with the economic uncertainty,the private sector are not in a hurry to recruit and rightly so!
- Kunle Sotunde, London, 17/02/2011 15:50
Report abuseThere are very few vacancies about and most of them are in areas and cities where the unemployment do not live and could not afford to move to.
All this talk of Polish builders, plumbers etc totally ignore the fact that a bunch of them can come to London, rent a room where perhaps six or more of them sleep in, and send money back home that is enough to keep their families and have some left over...The Auf Wiedersehen effect in reverse.
They can stand it for as long as it takes up to build up a pot of money in Poland, and then return home.
This option is not open to building workers in Grimsby or Liverpool with families. The extra costs of living and working in London on top of sending their money home could mean they are out of pocket.
The government should concentrate on trying to figure out how to create an economy where employment opportunities can grow. But as so many of them are trust fund babies and millionaires by inheritance with friends in the City making megabucks, they have no idea how to do this.
- D. Short, Tunis, Tunisia, 17/02/2011 15:45
Report abuseAlan, England.
Granted, point taken. Labour is the party of denial but that having been said, today in Parliament was the first time that I have heard the Government apologize for getting things wrong, ie over the forest sell-off. Then, it was not Cameron that did so, it was the Minister Caroline Spelman that had to carry the can. For all that has gone before there has not been one apology. There has not been one "news" or political programme today that has not made mention of the fact that Cameron and the Government have now got a reputation for "U" turns, broken promises and poor "communication", indeed, I think it was on Sky (could be wrong) that mention was made that as a matter of extreme urgency, the Government was looking to improve "communication" so that their message could be better spread about. By the way I don't comment on many matters, only those in which I have a deep interest (like this being an ex Tory) and those in which I know something about.
- M. Clift., Worcester., 17/02/2011 15:38
Report abuseM Clift, I salute any politician that can make a U -turn on policies. If only Blair and Brown had had the courage to admit they were wrong. Even today after taking Britain into a pointless war in which !00 000 died and then bankrupting the nation, they will not admit they were wrong. Not even on immigration, education, NHS or any other subject. They still promote the same failed polices. Yet intelligent people pay them thousands of pounds to give a speech. No wonder we get such unintelligent comments on every subject.
- Alan, ENGLAND., 17/02/2011 15:14
Report abuseGina Bedford.I was not intending to criticise polish workers,I was just stating my particular case.The trouble now is we have very few skilled tradesmen most are chancers who do a 6 week coarse and then call themselves builders.This also happens with foreign workers. I myself done a five year apprenticeship and learned my trade properly,unfortunately this seldom happens now.
- Grafter, London, 17/02/2011 14:44
Report abuseUnfortunately, the rest of the male population of this country will not get the opportunity of marrying the daughter's of landed gentry millionaires, as in the case of both Cameron and Duncan-Smith resp..
So how they can have any idea whatsoever about the worries and fears brought on by politicians doing all they can to privatise every public service by stealth and deception, is unbelievable.
Just like Blair, Cameron is selling ideas for how others must live, whilst ensuring thirty year un-cancellable contracts are signed almost certainly for the eventual benefit of his big money backers.
Mr.'PR'Cameron is on a conning home run, make no mistake. Remember what Maggie Thatcher did under the pretence of competition, every utility company bill since has multiplied, as have those companies profits.
This is another massive con, ahead of the NHS's destruction next.
- Concerned Observer, Harrow, 17/02/2011 14:43
Report abuseRest easy everyone, as John, London say's we have heard it all before. Nothing will happen, Cameron say's things for instant effect, a couple of days after he has said them they are all forgotten or cancelled.
Andrew Neil on Today's "politics" identified 5 major "U" turns that Cameron has made since he came into office, he must be disappointed if he can go a day without breaking a promise or making a "flip flop" on policy.
Today's dose is a complete and ignominious "U" turn on selling off our forests and also a really treacherous broken promise with regard to making pensioners sell their homes to pay for care homes. Remember Cameron slating Labour for not solving that obscene problem and how he would no longer require pensioners to sell their homes if he got into office. Well, he is in office and what has he done, said that this policy must continue and even worse, has lowered the "means test" cut off sum before pensioners must pay. Result, many thousands more pensioners will have to sell their homes and the monstrous, inhumane policy will continue, we will remember this won't we pensioners.
Most political observers now acknowledge that Cameron is heading a "flip flop" government which goes back on it's word, cancels serious policy issues at the slightest sign of problems or hassle and only today, the Andrew Neil programme compared him with John Major.
I give this new Benefits policy about two weeks before major changes are made to it or it is kicked into the long grass.- M. Clift., Worcester., 17/02/2011 14:43
Report abuseThe sooner we clean up the non deserving people, the quicker we can afford to give real help to the people who really need it.
- Anna, London, 17/02/2011 14:22
and that is the whole point. When you insist on giving a little to a whole heap of people who choose not to help themselves, there is less to go round for those who really do need help.
Choice should accrue no social obligation.
- Scotty, London, 17/02/2011 14:31
Report abuseTomcat great you like the idea - hope the idea spreads.
The minimum wage should be increased so that people in work dont need benefits, benefits should be set at 20% less than the minimum wage. It should be an incentive to get off it. Only used as a stop gap till people get back on their feet.
Benefits should only be for the disabled, elderly, ex service and people who need to look after someone disabled.
The sooner we clean up the non deserving people, the quicker we can afford to give real help to the people who really need it.
My next idea - Make Sky illegal for people on benefits.
The Australian govement is currently reviewing giving benefits as coupons for basic living - shelter, food, water.- Anna, London, 17/02/2011 14:22
Report abuseAnna.the only trouble with making the unemployed do voluntary work might put all the people who now do these jobs redundant and then have to claim benefit.
- Bazza, London, 17/02/2011 14:16
Report abuseBy the way, can someone explain why the permanently disabled should have to endure regular health checks to qualify for their benefit?
- Giustina, London, 17/02/2011 14:06
Report abuse@Anna, London
'Bring in voulunteer work in return for benefits...'
Best idea I've have heard in years. But will only work for those with no work and signing on. Cos many benefits are going to already working people i.e. low income, housing, incapacity.
- Tomcat, London, 17/02/2011 14:03
Report abuse- An Ex-Teacher, London, 17/02/2011 13:07
In answer to your question, it's a degree in good, old fashioned English from a proper university - not a "Micky Mouse" one.
I read some of the comments on here with disbelief. Those who think there are countless jobs out there just waiting to be filled are in fantasy world - our local paper had a handful of jobs in it last week where previously there has been 3 or 4 pages of jobs.
It was reported yesterday that thousands of new jobs had been created in the last few months. What they didn't say was that the majority of these were jobs relating to the forthcoming Census that last for about 4 or 5 weeks! That's the nonsense being spouted by this Government of fools.
- Dave No 1, London, 17/02/2011 14:02
Report abuseScotty: Did you bang your head,you actually make sense for a change.
- dave, london, 17/02/2011 12:48
I typed extra slow so you could follow.
- Bazza, London, 17/02/2011 13:04
ah bazza, your true colours are coming out. I don't give a flying stuff about you want, not when it comes to other people's money.
if you can work, but instead throw a hissy fit cause you don't like what's been offered, you should get nothing. After all, what right do you have to ask for other people's money if you are capable of helping yourself but choose not to.
and thankfully, that's the proposal.
- Scotty, London, 17/02/2011 13:47
Report abuseWhat jobs? There are 2.5 million unemployed and roughly 400,000 job vacancies.
If you add the 1.8 million chucked off Incapacity Benefit, to the 490,000 sacked public sector workers, we could easily see unemployment hit 4 million in the next 5 years.
- Giustina, London, 17/02/2011 13:43
Report abuseWhat no one has addressed are the tricksters who know the system e.g. they begrudgingly accept work, do it, cock it up on purpose and the counter is reset to zero. Also if I were an employer I would not want to touch some of the heaps I see coming out of the Jobcentre. Would you want to be waited on by Vicky Pollard? Have Andy patrol your site as a security guard?
- Dan, London, 17/02/2011 13:42
Report abuseGatedweller: that's illegal. has anyone been prosecuted? No, I thought not.
- BJ, East London, 17/02/2011 13:36
Report abuseDave No 1, London: Well done for your daughter getting a 'First'. But not wishing to take anything away from her endeavours, a 'First' in what...Media Studies...Dance...Needlework..? Or was it a real 'First' in something that has 'real meaning' from a 'real university'? We are becoming like the USA, with thousands of people obtaining 'degrees' obtained within 18 months of 'internet' studies from a variety of Mickey Mouse learning institutions.
- An Ex-Teacher, London, 17/02/2011 13:07
Report abuseScotty.You amaze me ,its irrelevant that there are no jobs,to you maybe,people don't want benefits they want proper jobs and until we address this problem and stop fudging around the edges its not going to make a blind bit of difference.Not everyone wants to work in an office nor will there ever be enough office jobs to go around anyway.
- Bazza, London, 17/02/2011 13:04
Report abuseScotty: Did you bang your head,you actually make sense for a change.
- dave, london, 17/02/2011 12:48
Report abuseTo Grafter London: I am still rectifying all the blunders done on my home by British Workers, please don't tar all the foreign workers with the same brush. I know lots of Polish workers that are honest, hard working and reliable which is somewhat rare now in Britain.
- Gina, Bedford UK, 17/02/2011 12:47
Report abuseBring in volunteer work in return for benefits. There are roads to be swept, rubbish to be collected, parks cleaned. Meals cooked and delivered for the elderly – the list is endless. This would make benefits pay and imagine how great we could make this nation look before the Olympics.
The Australian government introduced this and resulted in a massive drop in benefit claimants- Anna, London, 17/02/2011 12:26
Report abuseFairness must be the goal here,people should work if they can, for a fair wage, but I'm afraid in today's Britain we certainly aren't in a position to force people to take jobs that simply aren't there,we need job creation in manufacturing instead of importing everything,the service industry cannot generate enough proper jobs.
- Bazza, London, 17/02/2011 11:57
leaving aside all the falsities and incorrect statements here, there is a simple fact you haven't addressed:
if there is no work, then the benefits will not be cut. if you do not refuse a job offer, then the benefits will continue.
there is no point waffling on about other irrelevancies.
- Scotty, London, 17/02/2011 12:24
Report abuseFairness must be the goal here,people should work if they can, for a fair wage, but I'm afraid in today's Britain we certainly aren't in a position to force people to take jobs that simply aren't there,we need job creation in manufacturing instead of importing everything,the service industry cannot generate enough proper jobs.
- Bazza, London, 17/02/2011 11:57
Report abuseSame old Tories no doubt looking for cheap Labour to make them billionaires!!!
Fact is it was the last Tory government that forced councils to put work out to tender an action that meant all the "triggers" of this world lost their jobs and we now have filthy streets and no one to clear the snow and ice in winter!!! - (I remember when councils advertised for snow clearers in the winter!!!).
As for going on about rents being in rich areas - the truth is most of these rent are in properties which were either classed as slums or built as council flats which Daves lot would not touch with a barge pole. But now these areas have become trendy as russian billionaires have forced out Daves lot from Kensoington and Chelsea then the idle rich want to get their hands on anything nearby.
As for the system well why not make employers pay sick pay as a legal requirement then benefits would not be needed for short term illnesses. I bet if Europe made this a requirement Dave would be up in arms about it!!
As to the retirement age lets just make it so many years after someone started work that way those who started at 15 could retire at 63 while those who went to uni could work till they are 73!!
Just think of the thousands of jobs lost by not going ahead with Building new schools - Fact is their are still plenty "roofs to be fixed while the sun shines!".
Wonder what costs the ezchequer more - benefits or tax avoidence and cash in hand by the self employed?
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 17/02/2011 11:54
Report abuseSadly we now have a generation of british unemployed people who choose to decline job offers that migrant workers are happy to take.
- Sam, London,UK., 17/02/2011 10:43
Nail. Hammer. Head.
this is the ugly truth, that sticks like an inconvenient thorn in the side of those who whine "but... there aren't any jobs".
there is a difference between not getting your preferred line of work, and there being no work.
a very big difference. and that difference is whether you can expect to be given benefits whilst you wait for something worthy of your inestimable talents. the answer must be no!
people refuse work that they think is beneath them, or unsuitable because they have a degree in interpretive media studies through modern dance from the university of bugger all.
- Scotty, London, 17/02/2011 11:43
Report abuseI could take early retirement now. No problem. No problem except that wouldn't be able to claim a state pension for another 5 years. Therefore, as much as I would love to hand over my job to a younger person and give them the pleasure and experience of doing a vital job in a very well managed team, the government has tied my hands. I'm sure there are others in my position too. On the other side of the coin, the 2012 bods insisted that all the building/contracting work on the 2012 site went to foreign labour (true - when I go through stratford every day, you never hear the contractors speak English), something the government denies. Also, go down Green Street, E13 and if you're white and British, no business there will give you so much as an interview! Also, all posts happen to be advertised in the respective foreign languages. All this with the LibCon blessing. So, Dave / IDS, 2012 junketmeisters - explain this, if you can. British jobs for British workers? Not, I fear, in our lifetime.
- Gatedweller, The People's Republic of Newham, 17/02/2011 11:38
Report abuse"That system has got to change. Fairness to the taxpayer as well."
that will be unpopular with some on here.
- Scotty, London, 17/02/2011 11:36
Report abuseI'm a time served carpenter and joiner my company started employing Polish workers as they were cheaper than me and the other lads,I then found myself having to put work right that these new people had messed up but as they were cheaper the company gradually got rid of us making us redundant and now the company no longer exists obviously due to shoddy workmanship.I was there ten years some of the lads a lot longer.This is one reason why so many polish workers are employed here,because they are cheap and totally ignore health and safety.
- Grafter, London, 17/02/2011 11:34
Report abuse"No Sheila, the stark truth is that English youth do not want to do manual labour - period"- Frank, Home Counties, England."
No Frank.
The truth is that most youth don't want to do manual labour, not just English youth.
I have relatives in 3 other EU countries and they all tell the same story. Nobody wants to do badly paid, boring, dead end jobs.
I don't have a solution, do you?
- John Smith, London, EUSSR, 17/02/2011 11:20
Report abuseNo Sheila, the stark truth is that English youth do not want to do manual labour - period. I have first hand experience of this especially regarding farming in the Chichester area.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 17/02/2011 09:10
Blimey Frank! Have you bumped your head? Do you / would you consider working with /employing immigrants on the farm? You always blame immigrants for everything.- Andy, London, 17/02/2011 11:12
Report abuseAll these pinstripe spivs are on benefits to the tune of millions each...in the City....
None of them have done a decent days work.I agree that we need to curtail those millionaire benefit/ bonus cheats.
And what about all those sitters in offices in front of computers..Thet are not really producing anything either.
Perhaps Mr. Cameron should be attacking those who are getting paid for not doing anything productive...In both the private sector and the public sector.
What's the difference between someone getting paid to sit on their backside in an office and someone getting paid by the government via benefits...
The office is warmer.Britain is now a nation of sitters who don't want to get their hands dirty and we shall witness where that is going to lead us.....bankrupt.
- coplani, Inverurie, U.K., 17/02/2011 11:09
Report abuseLets face it, the UK is full off layabouts that get handed luxury houses and benefits for doing nothing! while all the tax payers I know have to worh their ass off to afford their own flat! If the people were interested in doing the shitjobs there wouldbt be that many polish workers etc coming here.
I mean come on, atleast they work! And everywhere else in Europe the benefits are hard to claim.- Lovisa A., London, 17/02/2011 11:06
Report abuseWhen he says benefits I think that means people who benefit most,that's certainly not job seekers ,they benefit very little compared to the very rich tax dodgers.So when we say stop benefits does this mean the ones who benefit most,if that's the case I'm all for it.
- bazza, London, 17/02/2011 10:49
Report abuseSadly we now have a generation of british unemployed people who choose to decline job offers that migrant workers are happy to take. I agree that if you refuse a job then you should not be able to expect other workers to pay for your keep.
The biggest problem I can foresee is that the british unemployed including young graduates think it is beneath them to accept manual labour or 'ordinary' jobs.
Millions of european migrants, especially the Polish are now doing these jobs and I admire them because they are hard working and motivated, albeit they still cannot make an English breakfast after being in this country for years!
- Sam, London,UK., 17/02/2011 10:43
Report abuseToo many scrounging layabouts and smelly know-all students studying Marxist theories and the like for my personal tax burden to cope with. I object - end of.
- Ted, London, 17/02/2011 10:37
Report abuseDoes anyone seriously think that we haven't heard this message before,about getting people off benefits, ever since the 70's? The Tories tried it and failed; Labour tried it and failed. And Dave and IDS are also setting themselves up for failure.
The jobs have got to be there firstly, and the workshy forced off benefits to take up those jobs, unpleasant though the the jobs may be.
One suggestion from the American Workfare experience is that, stop the JSA benefits until the workshy have actually got some kind of job, then help them with benefits to stay in the job or get something better.
It might work here. Its a tough policy. Tough but perhaps necessary, to break that cycle of dependency.- dhan raj, basildon, 17/02/2011 10:23
Report abuseDoesn't take much to work this out, more pensioners continuing with their jobs means less jobs available.
- PaulB, London, 17/02/2011 10:17
Report abuseSame old Tories attack the people at the bottom,make middle earners pay for the debt and allow the rich to get richer .things just don't change.
- bazza, London, 17/02/2011 10:15
Report abuseHEARD IT ALL BEFORE
ALL TALK AND NO REAL ACTION
Last time we heard this all that happened was benefits were means testedso savers were denied them . The real level of unemployment is 10 million as many are looking after themselves
ONCE AGAIN CLUELESS AND HELPLESS
NOTHJNG WILL HAPPEN
All they have doen is raise pension age to 66 and made english students pay £9,000pa tuition fees . Same old story hit the soft touch .
- john, london, 17/02/2011 09:39
Report abuse@ Frank - what would you know about the work ethic? You're on this site even more than me.
- Arfur Towcrate, Staffycher, 17/02/2011 09:37
Report abuseDAVE NO 1 LONDON - Totally agree with your comments. There are young adults here in my part of London also out of Uni last year and still without work. They to doing unpaid Internships but like their parents state - great unpaid Labour for the Co's and a continual drain on their pockets.
The Government needs to give Incentives, even if it means big tax breaks, to bring manufacturing back into the UK. You wonder Why China is taking over the world it's because they manufacture. Ok they have cheap labour but the way this world is turning how long before they next turn on the dictatorship that rules them. Maufacturing creates jobs. Jobs means people off the dole queues, less burden on the state. More tax incentives should be given to small companies also who are drowning under high rents/business rates/Eer's NI etc etc.
I totally agree with DCameron on the benefits and not before time BUT we have to ensure there is work for people to get. To enable this we have to slash immigration until we sort the residents already in this country. At least if he brings welfare cuts in immediatley it MIGHT stem the flow of those coming in to join the gravy train.
The Government can also go further in the Benefit cuts in STOPPING immediatley any Child Tax Credits etc going to parents whose kids DONT LIVE IN UK! Stop paying for cars for people on DISABILITY BENEFITS! If he really really got down to the bare bone of benefits being paid he'd see huge savings areas.
- Tessa, lONDON, 17/02/2011 09:33
Report abuseSadly one flaw in this argument - where are the jobs for people coming off benefit to take?
My daughter left university last summer with a first. Since then, the only jobs she has been able to do have been temporary or unpaid (internships). And this is someone who is bright and desperately wants to work. So what hope has an unskilled person got?
Cameron and his lapdog Clegg are making the problem far worse by their headlong rush to cut, cut, cut. They are clueless about what is happening in the real world.
- Dave No 1, London, 17/02/2011 09:11
Report abuse@ sheila oneill, chichester
No Sheila, the stark truth is that English youth do not want to do manual labour - period. I have first hand experience of this especially regarding farming in the Chichester area.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 17/02/2011 09:10
Report abuseHeady stuff eh. No, seen it done it read the book and seen the movie. In 5 years time there will still be beneifit scroungers cheap foreign labour and an inefficient Health Service.
- BJ, East London, 17/02/2011 09:08
Report abuseGet rid of the coalition and then bring all our troops home and let our kids study.
Simple yet effective.
- ishi, Chiswick, 17/02/2011 08:50
Report abuseMany years ago, if someone was in between their normal line of work, there was no need to sign on. There was always plenty of seasonal work, summer and christmas on farms, retail, kitchens, hotels etc.
These jobs have been taken by foreign workers. Most of the employers also employ foreign people to hire and fire.
There is nothing the young people can do except sign on, but even then they have no automactic right to Job Seekers. The parents are being forced to support young people on little income. As once on the job market the parents are not entitled to any financial help.
David Cameron should seriously limit the number of foreign workers and give the youth of this country a chance.- sheila oneill, chichester, 17/02/2011 08:35
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Thursday, 17 February 2011
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